Γεια!
Μαθαινω ελληνικά αλλά πρέπει να συνεχίζω στα αγγλικά!
I'm sorry I can't write this in Greek! I've been learning for a few months now, but it's a very hard language to learn!
I'm English, but I live in France. I've wanted to go to Greece for a very long time, and so I'm very excited about the tour I've planned.
I'm arriving in Thessaloniki in the middle of July, and I'm cycling towards the south. I'd really like to visit Meteora and Delphi, but I don't really have a route properly planned. The problem is knowing which roads are safe and which are dangerous. I've already posted this question on other forums, but I think asking Greek people directly is the best thing to do. I've thought about going to Meteora by Katerini, Elassona and Deskati along the main road (13 and 26?) but I have little information about the road. Is is dangerous? Is it nice (it looks stunning on Google Earth!), are there places to get supplies? Is it possible to wild camp? Another important point, is it too ambitious in the middle of summer on a fully-loaded touring bike? (it looks like it's very mountainous.)
If this road isn't possible on a bike, do you know of another way? I've explored the idea of cycling through Dion, then Larissa, but it looks like it's quite diffiult to do this on roads that you can cycle on.
As for Delphi, it looks very, very mountainous in that part of Greece. How would you get there from the north?
Apart from that, do you have any particular tips for cycling in Greece? I have lots of questions to ask and I'm really looking forward to hearing from you all!
Thanks a lot
James
Hello there!
Firstly there's no such thing as safe road in Greece lol! I really haven't done so many miles on a bike but I congratulate you on your decision. Greek mountains are indeed awesome.
I really don't know how you're gonna make this possible without entering highways. You'd better get some advice from members that have actually cycled through these places. But since you're gonna be at Meteora, please be sure to visit Plastira's Lake, it's near my hometown, Karditsa. They even hold an event once a year, Tour of the Plastira's Lake.
By the way Elassona, Deskati, Plastira's Lake, Meteora are all mountainous places, so prepare yourself for a big deal of climbing.
One last thing, since you're not allowed on highways I don't know if the route you planned is feasible. From Thessaloniki to Meteora - highways excluded - this is the route according to google maps: http://bit.ly/j5mVWs
I really don't know anything about the condition of these roads, since I'm always using the highways.
Sure, go ahead and camp around, but I'd be rather careful for wild stray dogs/wolfs/bears up there.
I know I wasn't too much of a help, but I hope you get the answers you seek for! Welcome to podilater.gr and enjoy your stay! :)
Γεια σου!
As I am sure there are a lot of questions to be asked and to be answered, it is better if you could write to the the "Friends of the bicycle" . The e-mail is filoipod@gmail.com .
The cyclists of the "Friends of the Bicycle" have great expierence in bike touring and I am sure they will help you.
Welcome to the country of mountains. Enjoy them! You have great places to see. Everything will be great cycling Greece, there is only one thing to avoid: main highways. Easy to stay away of them, there are not many of them, and a basic map should be enough.
That itinerary seems ok. Generally country roads are not dangerous. Google Earth can be very helpful in planning your route.
You can easily find food and water. You can find easily places near water, and it is easy to camp wild.
------
Guidelines for cyclists in the Greek summer
-Beware fire!-
Fires are a big problem in summer in Greece. Setting a fire in the country from May to October is prohibited by the law and you can find yourself severely prosecuted! Never leave your cooking stove unattended. If you ever notice any sign of wildfire, please ask for help and let anyone know immediately! (Fire Forest Service emergency phone: 199)
-Climate and weather-
The Greek summer is relatively cool, but a heatwave is likely to come. Some days then can be very hot with temperatures exceeding 40 deg C (72 deg. F). Persons not accustomed to these conditions (i.e. from cool climates) should refrain from intense exercise, avoid midday activity, rest often in shade, lessen food and prefer fruits and vegetables, drink enough. Always wear a hat and protect your vision with sunglasses. Persons with susceptible skin should protect themselves appropriately. If you notice any sign of sunstroke (dizziness, weariness, unusual sleepiness) refrain from activity, take shelter in shade, rest, drink enough, stop food intake.
-Biological risks-
Biodiversity is very rich in Greece, yet there are not any dangerous creatures and living in the open is safe. Only persons with allergies might be concerned about some poisonous creatures, therefore it would be wise for them to carry some quick remedy. Disturbing creatures include some plants (which pose a threat only when eaten though) and animals like scorpions, the common garden spider, animal parasites, mosquitos, horseflies, bees, wasps, hornets, salamanders, and vipers. Vipers very rarely cause a problem and if you ever meet a one (recognized by a zigzag pattern on it’s back) just leave it undisturbed, it will go away. Anyway sleeping in your tent practically ensures the safest sleep, especially as to mosquitos. Since the air can be rich with insects, protect your eyes with glasses and keep your mouth closed when rushing downhills.
-Traffic-
A cyclist can follow any road without the safety being the crucial choice anyway. The main highways are unsafe and cyclists are prohibited anyway! Minor roads in the countryside have traffic mainly in weekends only, and they offer interesting scenery and drivers are rather considerate.
-Environment-
Greece is a country with a very rich environment. The landscapes are very diverse and the cyclist constantly experiences many different places in a single day. Mountains are everywhere, cutting the space in numerous localities with their own character. Small towns, villages, woods, people, history, monuments, fountains, uphills and downhills, rivers, valleys, beaches… what a cyclist meets in his way can be endless.
Enjoy all of it!
Cycling in this country will be easier than learning its language - but equally thrilling!
I wouldn't suggest this route if you are biking alone. To make this possible and easier is better to go as a group. Usually the bikers traveling to Greece are riding the coast. And the thing you are calling main road has nothing to do with what you are used to in France. The scenery is fantastic but these roads are more dangerous than you imagine. Is not impossimple but you have to be more careful. I would suggest to try Thessaloniki - larisa - Trikala - Meteora. I know it's more km but it's easier to find anything in these places (even if you need something for your bike) the roads are easier and not so dangerous. On the other hand the road you suggested is cooler in the summer. In the summer all the mountanious (chick) roads are cool enough to handle. Now from Meteora to delphi I hope you have strong legs. It's all up and down. Also the limni plastira suggested by another user is a must seen. Try to find local clubs they will be more helpful.
I'm having trouble trying to reply. I'm using dictionaries and luck but I always seem to lose what I've written - this is my third attempt now!
Thanks a lot for your very useful information. You've all given me a lot to think about. There seems to be a bit of disagreement on whether the road I'd chosen is safe or not. I guess I was expecting that.
kktsol - you seem to be confirming what was worrying me about the route - and the way your suggesting is actually what I'd originally planned. I switched to going via Katerini and Elassona because I was worried that the road from Katerini to Larissa would be too busy. Greece looks like Italy in that all the cyclable roads are along the coast. I was worried that the road in question, being squeezed between the sea and Mount Olympous, might lead to a lot of heavy traffic, just like the roads I'd encountered in Italy. I was also worried that it'd turn into a motorway - something that happened to me a few times in Italy. But in light of what you said, I think I need to consider going that way.
You say that Delphi will be very hard. What, in your opinion, is the "least hard" way? DOOM_NX mentioned dogs. Do you know where they are a particular problem?
lyhadj - your suggestion is excellent - I'll email them write away!
Thanks, once again, for all your help.
To be more acurate the road is very beautiful but is not what you are used to in France (or Italy). Also it would be difficult to find anything for your bike. But if you have company then is a good road as long as you watch the local traffic that is not used in bikers. The other way that I suggested in the maps is all big road but I tell you that it is full of small roads that goes along with the big ones and with better scenery.
Now from Meteora to delphi the Hell is domokos (which also is boring) which can be avoided by Meteora - Trikala - Karditsa - farsala - Almiros (the pagasitikos gulf has excellent places for swimming) and then all the way by the sea to Lamia. From there you have to do the second hell to Ampfissa. Try to avoid the road that begins from the high way to amfissa since it's usually full of trucks. unfortunately the alternative is much more km but also a big climping (Kamena vourla - atalanti - close to livadeia - arahova - Delphi). I'm not certain but I think that in one place the Lamia -Amfissa road has only one pass (the main road) which might not be the best. But for that I'm not certain.
The clubs that other suggested might have more acurate information. The dogs hunt us even in the cities (is not dangerous and is like an internal joke) If you know how to camp then it's not a problem. But Because I have never camped (for me camping is a hotel without 24 hour room service) is better to ask someone else (again the clubs will have the information needed. Enjoy your stay in Greece.
Thank you so, so much kktsol! This information is very useful to me!
However, I'd like to check something. You suggest going to Meteora via Larissa and Trikala. But on my map that looks like a motorway (the E92). Is there a road following it that is cyclable? The alternative would be to to from Larissa to Elassona, but Ride with GPS informs me this would be another one of those 'hells'. What do you think about this?
This reminds of an old saying: everyone wants to go to paradise, noone wants to try hell.
Hey James, cycling in Greece you have so many things to enjoy - don't let any hell spoil those. ;-) In fact just enjoy that too!
If you can understand Greek, I suggest you to visit the website of i.alli.ellatha you can learn many usefull things about cycling in Greece.
Thanks for that link. I can't understand Greek much, but thanks to the miracles of the Chrome browser, I get some fairly understandable translations.
The cycling group got back to me really quickly with lots of advice. As I said in my reply, I'm simply staggered by the help I'm getting here and am falling in love with Greece before even stepping foot in the country! Thank you all so much!
yes there is. Most of the motorways have a parallel or near them another road which is used by the local traffic so they don't have to pay the tolls. And the motorway that we are talking is not a closed road (not like the ones you are used to). But there are also smaller roads nearby.There might be a different in km but is not so big to scare you.
The Hell that I talked about in Domokos is that is boring and full of trucks. The climbing is not possible to avoid with the places that you choose
Don't you find, though, that these roads that run parallel to the motorways become absolutely saturated with traffic? This is what happens in France. To avoid the tolls, the cars and trucks all end up going down roads like that and, as they don't want to go any slower than they would on the motorway, they can be very dangerous for cyclists. I've had a few bad experiences on roads like that - the motorists are often very irritated to see bikes on 'their' road and they can be quite aggressive. It's one of the reasons why I always try to avoid roads that run too close to tolled motorways. I guess there's less traffic in Greece, though.
no you won't have that problem. They are not good enough for big vehicles so they are avoided by them unless there is no other option (which is not your case (except domokos as mentioned))
Hello again Jim.
Greeks generally don't avoid highways with their cars. So old national roads are not congested with traffic. But to tell the truth they're not that well-maintained so I'd be careful around turns and blind spots.
In northern Greece there are 2 main closed highways you are not premitted.
The one that connects Salonica to Athens
View Larger Map
and this one called "Egnatia" that connects Salonica to Ioannina:
View Larger Map
Keep your route between these roads and you won't have any problems with the law.
Moreover, this route is legal with bikes, but there's a speedway part. Bikes are allowed but be careful if u're gonna use it.
View Larger Map
Also, this route is not a closed highway, despite E92 labels:
View Larger Map
I hope I helped a bit :)
Good luck with your planning :)
Excellent information there DOOM_NX, that really helps a lot. The information I seem to be getting from you all is that, despite the apparent similarities between Greece and Italy on the relief front, as far as roads are concerned it's a totally different ball game. That's good news! I just need to check a couple of things, though. You say that the road between Larissa and Kardista has a speedway part, but I can't see that on the map I've got. It shows this road to be a quiet one - although it does indicate a small section around Kardista going north towards Trikala and south towards Domokos as being a speedway. That road is marked road 30 on my map. Is that, by any chance, the road you're talking about?
Another thing: how much traffic do you expect to get on that E92? Will it be fast-moving? Is there clear visibility?
You can't see the speedway part between Κarditsa and Larissa because mainly it's a new road and it's not a closed motorway. No heavy traffic at all. Visibility is great and you are protected from the opposite lane.
Another similar part is this one
This part also is heavily used because it connects Karditsa and Trikala to Athens. You are allowed to ride a bike but cars tend to run fast at these straights. It's more dangerous than the speedway part I described between Karditsa and Larissa earlier.
If you use this bit instead, it's a lot quiter, less dangerous, more beautiful but mountainous trip. You're gonna also pass almost by my village :P
Both of these roads lead you to Domokos climbing part. Then some speedy straights and you reach this twisty road usually congested with trucks and about 10 cars following each of them. But you can't avoid it I guess. I've also met cyclists at this bit.
E92 from Trikala to northwest is fairly used. When riding on a car traffic is not a problem. But I don't know how you bicycle tourers define traffic...
I hope I helped...
It looks like I'll be going past your village, then, because this is very close to the route that the cycling club has advised me to take. Thanks to all this information, I now have a very clear idea about what I'm going to do. I'll be descending from Kalista along the road you indicate up to Achladia. From there, I'll be continuing down to Kato, Perivol, Grammeni and Kastri. The advice I've had has been asolutely first class and I now feel much more confident about what I'm going to do. I'll plot it out in Google Maps soon and put the link up.
Please do! I'm curious to see what the experts said about northern roads.
I might do part of it with my car or when I'm fit enough to cycle it through :P
Oh and my mother and I will be glad to help you "recharge your batteries" should you make a stop at Melissa! :)
Well, thank you all very much for your help! I'm so glad I came here to ask your opinions - I now feel reassured and confident about what I'm going to do. I've also had a huge amount of help from the Friends of the Bicycle association, and I've also started getting posts on the other site where I posted for assistance.
It hasn't been easy deciding what to do, but I've come to the decision that I will try the route I originally intended. I may never have the opportunity of doing it again, so I really think I'm going to have to give it a go, otherwise I might regret it for the rest of my life. The Friends of the Bicyle club tell me that it is a good route - I've also been informed on Bike Forums that the it's truly stunning. Looking at the elevation profiles using RidewithGPS and Mapmyride, I see that, although long, it is actually easier than some of the climbs I did in Italy. The main problem for me is food and water and finding a safe place to sleep away from dogs. I've been told that most villages have fountains, so that should sort the water problem out, but I'm still very unsure about the dog problem. In short, here is the route that I am going to attempt:
Route
However, I may find that the road is more difficult than I can handle - I may find that the heat makes climbing very difficult - or I may find the road too dangerous. In that case, I need an alternative plan, and that will be to follow what kktsol has suggested, which is this:
Alternative Route
As you can see, on both routes, I have planned a couple of days cycling round the Chalcidique and Sithonia. My original idea was to warm myself up before attempting the mountainous roads into Meteora and Delphi. However, I notice on the elevation graphs produced by ridebyGPS that there are some pretty major climbs there too - so I may yet decide not to bother with this part and get straight on with my ride. This should give me more time to go to other places.
My plane arrives in Thessaloniki on 18th July - and I leave Athens on 16th August. If anyone is around then and fances accompanying me for any part of the ride I'd be thrilled to meet you! To be honest, the company would be most welcome!
I'll be posting my voyage on a site or a blog (haven't decided which yet) so you should be able to see how I'm doing (if I manage to find Wifi!). If I write another post with the link on it, will you see it? I mean, I haven't seen a way of configuring these forums to get an email notification when there's been a new post. Should I create a new thread - or maybe I can contact you all by email?
PS - DOOM_NX - I'd love to stop off for a re-charge at your place. Thanks very much for the offer!
Usually they say that the best place to sleep is the garden of the small church you can find in any greek village. And no dog problem. I told you before the dogs are like an internal joke. They are not going to be a problem. The sheeps maybe
And even if the priest don't allow you the next church will be ok. This was told to me by a friend who camped around Greece with motorcycle three years ago. I hope it hasn't changed.
When you come to Athens and if I'm in Athens at the moment (vacation time) contact me and we can meet and tell you the places in Athens. I can't give you a place to sleep but If I'm here I can show you around.
If I were you I would concentrate in my main voyage.
Buon voyage
Greetings mate.
If you put your hopes on finding Wifi then yours would be a very short blog :P
If by any chance you get ahead of your schedule you might want to ride Mornos Lake.
It's on the left side of Amfissa and the scenery is really good. The way round is about 75km with ups and downs. There are places to eat on most villages around the
lake and you could then go straight down to Aigio.
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/354739
PS: Greek drivers will pose a bigger threat than dogs. Dogs will bark at you as you pass close to the sheep/goat herd but that's it. Also there will be lots of cow shit so slalom :)
why you say that. Before the election they said that the wifi will cover the whole Greece so we all have free internet.
We must be the only country in the EU that have sign "beware of the goat".
Don't worry they are not a problem. These sign are left from 1960.
So the signs to look out for are these ones:
Still, it's perhaps less of a shock than the sign post you see a lot where I'm from in England:
Around this part of France, the biggest hazzard on the road is squashed beetroot - it's very dangerous!
Now, seriously, I was really hoping I'd be able to get some Wifi in order to post my progress. If you guys are telling me that's not going to happen...I suppose internet cafés are out of the question? I heard mobile connections in Greece were amonst the best in Europe - but I don't suppose that's going to help much because you can only get 3M with a contracted phone card (I intend to buy a non-contracted SIM card for my phone).
Going back to road safety, what do you guys think about flags? Would you consider putting a flag on your bike rack to be seen?
Do they just cross the road or do they practice on cyclists?
I suggest you don't wear red clothes so you don't look like a beetroot.
James, be cool, this country can offer exellent times to the open-eyed and open-minded cyclist, relax-and-enjoy will still be the best policy.
No flags, then?
...with orange or yellow fluo colours, and reflective stripes, like those used from roadside workers, might be even better than flags. Very cheap and easy to get too.
I'll be wearing those too! Looks like no-one would use a flag. I wouldn't, usually, but I've heard so many stories of Greek roads. OK then, forget the flag!
There are cards for 3g prepaid. Wifi is offered for free in places where there is high flow of tourists. Not easy to find in your route. Internet cafes you may find in small towns.
For 3g:
Cosmote
Cosmote 3G coverage
Vodafone
Wind
I think cosmote is a safer bet for the mountains, but I have no personal experience, so others should add to this.
I agree with the reflective clothes part.
You should make a deviation if you have the time/strength. You should include Plastira's Lake Tour.
Route
Alternate Route
Or maybe it's too much...
Oh! And there's WiFi at my place :P